When Vice President JD Vance appeared on The Joe Rogan Experience and suggested that UFOs could be demons, the internet ran with the headline. But when Joe Rogan revisited the topic with religious studies professor and author Diana Pasulka on episode #2533, the conversation went far deeper than the viral soundbite suggested.
Pasulka, a professor of religious studies and author of the new book ‘The Others’, was quick to put Vance’s comments in context.
“That was the headline, Joe, but when you actually listen to what he had to say, it was more complicated,” she said. “I thought that he did a good job of talking about it with you.”
Rogan, however, wasn’t fully satisfied with Vance’s original reasoning.
“I didn’t think that he had a very satisfying explanation as to why he would say I think they are demons,” Rogan admitted, adding that he was open to hearing a better one. Pasulka offered to fill in the theological gaps.
She explained that Catholic theology has long maintained three categories for understanding unexplained phenomena: the supernatural, the natural, and a third called the “preternatural.” This medieval framework, discussed by Thomas Aquinas, covers events that cannot be explained naturally but don’t rise to the level of miracles.
According to this theology, preternatural beings can appear and disappear, seemingly read minds, and place thoughts into people’s heads, all qualities that mirror reported UFO encounter experiences.
“The preternatural is still the best category that we have for looking at this,” Pasulka said.
Rogan pushed back on the demon label directly. “When you think about demons, most people think about evil. They think about something that does horrible things to you, possession, something that causes you to m*rder people or something that wants to steal your soul. That doesn’t seem at all like what we’re talking about with these UFO experiences.”
He argued that UFO encounters tend to describe beings with superior intelligence who communicate telepathically but don’t appear malicious.
Pasulka acknowledged this but noted her thinking had shifted after years of research. She pointed to what researchers call the “hitchhiker effect,” where negative phenomena follow people home after encounters at locations like Skinwalker Ranch. She also referenced Stanford immunologist Gary Nolan, who stated publicly that these beings engage in deception, giving people false information.
“It is beyond a doubt that there’s a pattern match between people who have these experiences and people who have demonic experiences,” Pasulka said, while adding that a pattern match does not prove they are one and the same.
The conversation wrapped on a lighter note when Rogan pointed to his Comedy Mothership logo, which features a horned, alien-like figure. “I should have showed that to JD,” he laughed, letting the implication speak for itself.
